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Talk:Bartemius Crouch Junior
Recent Edit ..was mine, I got booted during the course of editing. Mafalda Hopkirk 00:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC) Skills image We still need an image for "Magical abilities and Skills". My personal favourite would be a moving one of him casting Morsmordre, which we also could use for the spell´s article. --Rodolphus 12:22, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Barty Crouch, Jr. achieved 12 O.W.L.s? People want to edit into his article that he achieved 12 O.W.L.s. Their only source for this seems to be (because I cannot remember any other place where it was stated, and I listened to the audiobook just days ago) the part of the book where Barty Crouch, Sr., clearly delusional while under the Imperius curse, babbles on about a lot of things, including that "just the other day", Jr. got 12 O.W.L.s. This is hardly proof or a reliable source. Crouch also claimed that Percy (or, as he put it, "Weatherby") was there with him and that Crouch's wife was still alive. Are we to assume that Crouch's wife was indeed alive and that everyone who claims he died in Azkaban in her son's guise is lying? It sounds to me like Crouch was just being deluded by the Imperius curse into thinking he was leading a perfect life, or something close to it, a life where he was a big-wig at the Ministry, where his wife was still alive and where his son had gotten top marks at Hogwarts. Now, if anyone can find another source for Jr.'s prowess, then it should go into the article. If they can't, I say it shouldn't. It's hardly reliable evidence. FallenAngelII 17:59, 17 August 2009 (UTC) :It is not specified whether Crouch was delusional or delirious, and yes there is a difference. When Crouch believed he was talking to Percy, he was discusing the preperations for the Tournament, which he WAS involved in. It's entirely possible that he was recalling a legitimate past conversation he'd had regarding his son's O.W.L.'s. As there's nothing that says Crouch Jr. DIDN'T earn 12 O.W.L.s, it should still be considered canon, although I have already changed the wording so that it is regarded as merely being mentioned instead of definitive. - Nick O'Demus 18:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC) ::"There is nothing to say he didn't earn 12 O.W.L.'s, thus it's proof". Only it isn't. A lot of things are possible. Supposed encyclopedias (Wikis) should not be dealing with rampant speculation. A lot of people lied about themselves at the Quidditch World Cup when talking to the Veelas. Are we to believe Stan Shunpike really was on his way to becoming the youngest Minister For Magic ever because he said it and nothing in the books openly denies this? FallenAngelII 18:12, 17 August 2009 (UTC) ::He wasn't dealing with Veelas, though, he was under the Imperius Curse. We don't know much about the mind of someone while they're under the curse. All we know is that they feel very relaxed and their mind fogs. Perhaps over a long period of being under the curse, they begin reliving events. He said things like, "...and when you've done that, Weatherby, send an owl to Dumbledore confirming the number of Durstrang students who will be attending the tournament, Karkarroff has just sent word there will be twelve...". Later he said, "Thank you, Weatherby, and when you have done that, I would like a cup of tea." At that point another memory may have mixed with it or the information he was trying to get out because he said, "My wife and son will be arriving shortly, we are attending a concert tonight with Mr. and Mrs. Fudge". He might have been to a concert in the past and he was fighting to get the infromation about his wife and son at the same time. A minute later he says, "Yes, my son has recently gained twelve O.W.L.s, most satisfactory, yes, thank you, yes, very proud indeed. Now, if you could bring me that memo from the Andorran Minister of Magic, I think I will have time to draft a response...". This helps with the fact that he didn't really seem to care much about his son, at least, he spent little time thinking of him and focused much more on his job. It's entirely possible.--L.M.P. Sirius Black also mentioned that Papa Crouch should have focused more on his son rather than his career ambitions. There is also what I mentioned in the section on Patriarchy that what Barty sought from Voldemort was a father's praise and approval - as indicated by a different quote. That Barty wanted from Voldemort what he felt he could not get from his own father. In the scene, witnessed by Harry, Barty is trying to fight the Imperius Curse and to be saying that it was all his fault - that memory seems to be something related to what he was trying to say. That it refers to his son and his wife being alive seems to indicate that it was a real memory - or, at least, that part of the memory was real from an earlier time. Weatherby could have been Percy or a different underling from a long time ago. Either interpretation points to the fact that Papa Crouch did not pay much attention to underlings or inferiors - which turned out to be his undoing. Weatherby means a field of castrated bulls - so an impotent (ie powerless) underling who was deemed inconsequential and was not worth remembering. It is not just Percy that papa crouch deemed inconsequential but every other underling before him. Not doing this to argue for a separate Weatherby entry (though do think that there should be one) but to Crouch's mindset. And that we shouldn't be dismissing what he said about his wife and son just because he calls the underling Weatherby. (Vaudree (talk) 01:06, March 8, 2016 (UTC)) Infobox Image I think we should put an image from 1995 (maybe this), because the actual in from 1980s- --El Profeta Vespertino 17:27, September 4, 2009 (UTC) :I don't think so. This picture (from the 80's) is better quality. :We must put the most recent picture, according to the policy. Would you put a picture of Harry from 1991? Or a baby Harry as the profile picture? If you are still hesitating, read this: Harry_Potter_Wiki:Layout_guide#Infobox (fifth point). --El Profeta Vespertino 19:00, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :But wouldn't that mean we should put a screenshot of Harry from the Lego game as his main image? -Smonocco :No, because Lego game-Harry is from 1991-5, and the actual from 1997. Look at Colin Creevey: his image is the latest we have, even if it is from a videogame, we should put it.--El Profeta Vespertino 13:46, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Imperius Curse? In the movie--when Bartemius Jr is as Alastar Moody--he transfigures Draco into a ferret and also makes him fly about. Can we assume that maybe he used the Imperius Curse on Draco or was it just a levitation spell? There is nothing to say that he sis use the Imperius curse, and no motivation for him to use it as far as I can see. I think, when he makes him move about, he uses another spell, especially seeing as Draco does not seem overly distressed afterward (well, not as distressed as one would be once an Unforgiveable Curse had been used on oneself). Margiechocoholic Owl me! 08:11, March 1, 2010 (UTC) Do you use the movies as a source or ther books? It is importent to note that the books offer the real source and not the movies Dobby gave Harry the plant and not Nevile so i think you sohuld change that :The books are higher canon. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 17:54, July 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Could you point us to the offending sentance, please. Thanks. Jayden Matthews 17:56, July 4, 2010 (UTC) ::The article is correct. In the book Crouch gives Magical Water Plants of the Med to Neville, but Harry doesn't ask Neville for help, so Dobby gives the Gillyweed to Harry. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 17:57, July 4, 2010 (UTC) ::You could incorporate both because J.K. Rowling helped with the scripts, so some of the differences are her doing. The information can still count.--L.M.P. :::That's not policy. The information from the books is considered primary, information from the films is used if it doesn't conflict what was written in the books. Information from the films that is contradictory can be mentioned in Behind the scenes when needed. ProfessorTofty (talk) 18:04, July 15, 2012 (UTC) Jorkins I thought that Peter accidentally ran into Jorkins, and hoping she would be of use tricked her and led her to voldemort, where he possessed her and only then did her learn of the Quidditch cup and the whereabouts of Crouch Jr. The way it's worded on the site makes it sound like Voldemort knew that Jorkins had information on the world cup and they specifically searched her out and then ordered Peter to get the information out of her. I'll probably look it up in the book when I get home and go ahead and change this, unless someone has somethingelse to add. --BachLynn23 14:42, July 23, 2010 (UTC) Early Life Is "delusional" the way to put Crouch Sr's condition? He was under the imperius curse at the time, and trying to fight it, which is what was causing him to come off delusional..... --BachLynn23 16:12, August 2, 2010 (UTC) ancient runes? Why is there a thing about ancient runes at the bottom of Crouch jr's page? --BachLynn23 20:27, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :He received 12 OWLs so one had to been in Ancient Runes. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 20:29, August 17, 2010 (UTC) Fudge Did Fudge order the dementor to kiss him? 03:52, August 31, 2010 (UTC) :No. The Dementor kissed him of his own volition, but I have no trouble seeing Fudge ordering it after he had interrogated Crouch anyway. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 04:01, August 31, 2010 (UTC) :I don't think so. From what we hear from Fudge later, it seems more logical that he did order it. Fudge didn't seem to what to do an interrogation because he believed he already had all of his answers. He was a fool to think that.--L.M.P. Tongue What the hell is up with his tongue!? Wierdperson31 01:47, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :In th film they gave him that nervous tick, so that his father could distinguish him. It is not from the books. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 02:48, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :It's a thing he does when he's nervous or threatened, kinda like with snakes. I believe that they said that he picked it up from Nagini.--L.M.P. :This is something you can see in many films with charectors with pscological issues. Consider the Joker in The Dark Knight. This stims from a condition call "Tardive dyskinesia" and can be a permanent side effect of people requird to take antipsycotic medications. So its all most a subliminil atempt to register our attention with factual basess.-S.C.B Wand There is something that surprises me. It is said: "The wand chooses the wizard." But the wand of Alastor Moody does not recognize that he is used by a Fake-Moody - a polyjuiced person? That is very interesting. That would mean that the wand can be cheated. That's the same thing as with the wand of Bellatrix Lestrange and the polyjuice-Bellatrix which is in reality Hermione Granger. Would otherwise the really wands of Hermione Granger, Bartemius Crouch, jr. and all the other polyjuiced persons during the series would not recognize their true masters anymore? Harry granger 20:47, December 20, 2010 (UTC) :You forget that the wand was won from him. The morning of 1 Sept, 94 Pettigrew and Crouch attacked Moody. It is entirely possible that Crouch defeated Moody and claimed mastery of his wand. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 20:50, December 20, 2010 (UTC) O. k., this I can understand. But the right Alastor Moody seem to use his wand again when he was free. Why does the wand serve him again? He has not won it back from Bartemius Crouch, jr.? And why does the wand of Lucius Malfoy serve Lord Voldemort. LV has not won it from Lucius? Harry granger 21:01, December 20, 2010 (UTC) :Any wizard of any calibre can use any wand to channel their magic through. I mean, Harry uses Hermione's wand fairly well, certainly Lord Voldemort could have used Lucius' wand. Also,, remember the wand chooses the wizard, so when Moody's wand was returned, it most likely remembered its old master. --JKoch (Owl Me!) 21:15, December 20, 2010 (UTC) Good point. That does it explain. Thank you. Harry granger 21:20, December 20, 2010 (UTC) Tennant trolled me. Anyone else not notice that the 10th Doctor played Barty Crouch until recently? 02:58, December 19, 2011 (UTC) When I first watched it, I had no idea. After I watched a ton of Doctor Who and came back to the movie, I flipped out because I realized 10th Doctor (David Tennant) was Barty Jr. Professor ? Why is the title "Professor" given to him? Although he did teach at Hogwarts, he was disguised as Moody, and he wasn't the one appointed a professor at Hogwarts. :Babar Suhail 17:15, October 17, 2012 (UTC) :I removed it. Thanks for pointing it out! -- [[User:Seth Cooper| Seth Cooper ]][[User talk:Seth Cooper| owl post!]] 17:39, October 17, 2012 (UTC) Barty's Loyalty I think the reason Barty Jr. tried to convince his father he was innocent was twofold. Firstly was the obvious fear most people have over the Dementors, the second was a sense of pragmatism that Bellatrix didn't have. If all those who were willing to search for Voldemort were in Azkaban, then there would be none who'd be able to help him as the others were willing to denounce him rather then go to jail. Thoughts? Ztyran (talk) 18:15, April 23, 2013 (UTC) What spell? In the movie, when Barty enters in the Great Hall, he casts a spell on the magical sky. What is this spell? Reparo? Lady Junky 07:10, August 25, 2013 (UTC) Patriarchy Wondering if we should replace the article quote with "I will be honored beyond all other Death Eaters. I will be his dearest, his closest supporter…closer than a son…" . because that quote seems to be the main motivation for the character and to explain the character's actions the most. First, Voldemort with his Legilimency is a combo Boggart Mirror of Erised in that he seems to be able to guess most times a persons greatest fear or greatest desire in order to manipulated. Barty seems to both desire a father's love and believe that he can earn it. Second, that papa Crouch was an indifferent father seems to be indicated when he goes back into a trance in front of Harry which appears to take him back to a time when Barty was still in school and just got his Ordinary Wizarding Levels back. Black also indicates, as stated in this article already that Crouch was too busy trying to further his career to pay much attention to his son. Barty could not seem to earn his father's praise, even with high OWLs and came to resent him for it, which made him vulnerable to Voldemort's charms. Thirdy, that Barty's mother loved him is beyond question since she was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for him - and the house elf whose name reeks of patriarchy also seemed to love him. There seems to be an overvaluing of everything male and an undervaluing of everything female here that papa Crouch's indifference accounted for so much and momma Crouch's and the elf with the unfortunate name's love accounted for so little. Thus, Barty's desire was for the love (which he operationalized as praise and approval) of a father figure, someone whose opinion of him mattered. Papa Crouch's and Voldemort's opinions mattered and were intertwined. The approval or praise of anyone female did not and accounted for naught. (Vaudree (talk) 00:32, March 8, 2016 (UTC)) Rename? For British usage, should he be named Bartemius Crouch Jr (no full stop)? --Ironyak1 (talk) 19:28, May 26, 2016 (UTC) Months? Do we know which month he was arrested in? This could be used to make his birth range clearer. If I rember correctly, he was arrested shortly after Sirius, which would mean he (Barty) would have been born between November 1962 and November 1961 if I calculated correctly.--Rodolphus (talk) 19:55, April 7, 2017 (UTC) Bumping.--Rodolphus (talk) 11:17, April 25, 2017 (UTC) :I've been peeking at this on and off, but without much luck. We know that the trials take place after 31 October 1981 and Moody says it took him six months to track down Karkaroff so it's at least after 31 April 1982 at this time. (GOF30) The trials of Ludo Bagman and then Bellatrix, Lestranges, & Crouch Jr take place later than this, but it's unclear when they tortured the Longbottoms and then got captured. I wonder if the film has a picture of the vial Harry falls into as they tend to have dates on the labels? --Ironyak1 (talk) 16:33, May 13, 2017 (UTC) ::In looking at this more: ::* - "Rosier and Wilkes — they were both killed by Aurors the year before Voldemort fell." ::* - "“Rosier is dead,” said Crouch. “He was caught shortly after you were too. He preferred to fight rather than come quietly and was killed in the struggle.”" ::So Rosier dies the year before Voldemort fell and that was shortly AFTER Karkaroff was captured so Karkaroff's has been in jail sometime before his trial after the fall of Voldemort. Exactly how long after all these trials take place is not clear. --Ironyak1 (talk) 23:47, June 3, 2017 (UTC) It is worth noting that movie version of Crouch Jr is much more evil than the book version The fact that in the movie he simply abandoned his father's body in the forest suggest that he wanted his father's corpse to rot there.Kintobor (talk) 14:33, June 8, 2018 (UTC)Kintobor :I don't think it makes a substantial difference whether or not he transfigured his father's body into a bone or not. -- Saxon 15:00, July 4, 2018 (UTC) ::Movie version is better than book version. Movie Barty is extremely evil and nothing justifies his actions.Kintobor (talk) 19:05, July 26, 2018 (UTC)Kintobor :::That's a matter of opinion. -- Saxon 19:14, July 26, 2018 (UTC) In the movie Dumbledore didn't notice that Barty (in Moody's form) ushered Harry away from the crowd to killed him I watched this scene and everyone were too focused on Cedric Diggory's death. However, I noticed that Fred and George were looking at him when he was walking away with Harry. Is this possible that in the movie Weasley twins told Dumbledore about it? When Dumbledore, McGonagall and Snape suddenly appear to save Harry, this is never explained what caused them to go to Moody's office. But I figured out that Fred and George must have informed Dumbledore about Moody taking Harry with him.Kintobor (talk) 21:30, March 15, 2019 (UTC)Kintobor